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Author Topic: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?  (Read 2740 times)

BigAl

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 01:14:27 PM »

Camp Sussex has now been vacant for several years and a viable buyer has not come forward yet, further it you look on you-tube you can find videos of several other similar abandoned establishments in the tri-state area. I confess to shaking my head when someone starts talking about impact on existing residents of having it be a Town park, you honestly think that will be greater than it was when it was a campground for hundreds of kids at a time? Same argument applies to the dogpark, 10 years ago that land was earmarked to be a school, then it was going to be playing fields. Now two people on Dorfred terrace, fully 100 yards away and behind a tree line are complaining and everything is put on hold, you really think they are worse off? You really think a bunch of allotment gardeners (who would be fellow Vernon residents) pose a threat? Further to that their primary complaints seem to be about the dog park which, as was pointed out above was discussed many times. When I moved to Vernon at the start of what now is known as the fast growth period, there were few houses around me, now there are many, am I to assume without owning the land and knowing when I moved in what that land was zoned for, that I had the right to insist it remains as is? That seems to be the argument and based on current Council actions, I missed out on a great opportunity.

Camp Sussex is currently a blight and getting worse. Many of the building will need to be demolished but some of the larger structures we are told are not beyond redemption, these include the old recreation centers for the campers who were teens, hello does it seen beyond reason that it is suggested those buildings could be restored and used as designed? Nobody is saying it will not require supervision if that is done but to dismiss it out of hand in a Town which has known drug problem in part due to the lack of amenities? Having said that, I think it is clear that in good times I would support this proposal however given how taxes have risen several fold since I arrived in Vernon, I am therefore not sure we can afford it although I would like to see the projections which I doubt very much will show it can be done without substantial investment. Now if we hadn't had the Maple Grange fiasco which should have been a lot less money and have a better layout or the Town center project which have run up substantial amounts of debt and is still not off the ground or the backlog of road repairs or ........

So, put me in as undecided but unimpressed by some of the counter arguments I have heard.

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Phil Shiftly

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 03:07:20 PM »

I shall put my last fly in your “Teen Center” argument ointment then leave it be:

How are they going to get there?

If Mom and Dad both work, and most do these days, how are kids from the other side of town expected to get there and back?  Are the school buses going to be allowed to take them there and then back home at a designated time?  Or is this concept only going to be available on weekends?

Think things out and take ALL the factors into consideration.  That is the only reasonable, productive and fiscally responsible way to approach any project…a concept that has managed to elude the Vernon electorate for years it would appear. 
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BigAl

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »


I agree that transportation is an issue and Camp Sussex is hardly central, but neither are the schools or Maple Grange Park. School buses are used to take the kids to Maple Grange Park currently and leave them there.

Lots of potential problems and benefits need to be thought about.
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Vichiconti

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 04:52:10 PM »

At the original meeting, the idea was the senior center 1 -3 days a week. School buses would drop them off no biggie really. Unfortunately, that fell through, but being next to the police station - I think the kids would behave themselves; play chess, cards, guitar hero,  watch tv, have some snacks and just hang.

This idea about the Camp for the kids was in the paper. Fact is, I believe it was never discussed publicly with the kids to refurbish Camp Sussex for the teens.  This is just more twists and turns to make things sound good. Another words, hurry up and do something before anyone has time to think or question....

 Not against selling it to a private enterprise, but then again the issues of, not in my neighborhood and will we be giving out sweetheart deals?


Should Vernon acquire Camp Sussex?
 
Here is the original article: http://advertisernewsnorth.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120613/NEWS01/120619973/Should-Vernon-acquire-Camp-Sussex?--
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Sally Rinker

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2012, 07:39:15 PM »

Until Death Do Us – PARK ?

    Vernon's mayor announced, at the June 11th Council meeting, he wanted to purchase Camp Sussex. He told the Council they had to hurry with their decision even though the Economic Development Committee and Recreation Board have been discussing this for many months. He said, “It could be a place to picnic and boat- from birth to death.”
   Camp Sussex has been a non-profit youth camp for many years. Several years ago they lost their tax exempt status and taxes accrued at $96,580 per year. A company which buys tax lien certificates has paid the taxes of approximately $495,000 to Vernon. That company will soon have the right to foreclose and become the new owners. The mayor is suggesting Vernon taxpayers become the new owners by paying the $495,000 plus interest to the company while losing the $96,580 in yearly tax. That would be just the beginning of a huge money pit with endless cost and responsibility. Maple Grange Park was projected to cost $2-3 million and ended up costing several millions more.
    We have nearly $1 million in our open space fund which should be used to finish the bike/recreation path through Vernon. The Environmental Commission Chairperson came before this Council twice to ask for permission to finish that goal. They sent him away with no answer. Why would Vernon taxpayers want to buy property for a park which will empty the open space fund on one location and set us up for a huge financial burden of unknown numbers?
   The best use for Camp Sussex is for private enterprise to develop it as a premier sports camp which would yield far greater tax for our town. That possibility was very close to happening. Vernon has declining enrollment in our schools, causing discussion of closing a school, and nearly $30 million of debt. This is the time for this Council to represent the best interests of Vernon taxpayers and consider the impact on the adjacent communities. In my opinion, this would be one of the biggest blunders of this administration.

                                                   
Sally Rinker
Former Vernon Mayor


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BigAl

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2012, 09:49:50 PM »

I went to the Municipal building today to ask if the purchase of Camp Sussex had been discussed in detail or when it was going to be, that enquiry was prompted by a letter published by our former mayor which not surprisingly perhaps was similar to the above post. I was told it had not been discussed as yet by any committee who were only made aware of the opportunity at the Council meeting recently. To be sure of that, I also checked with a committee member I know, who confirmed same.  Sorry, but it seems to me that being out of office for a while sadly impacts the quality of information available to them.

As stated before, to me it seems a pity that everything the current administration does or wants to talk about is instantly opposed by members of the prior administration for no other reason it appears than who is suggesting it. How counter productive and sad. I would assume that if members of the prior administration are aware of a potential buyer that would pay taxes on this property, they would encourage them to come forward. However that is by no means clear and other agendas seen to prevail. Additionally, taxes on this property have not been paid for many, (perhaps over 80), years, is Vernon any worse off if the Town takes over the land and improves it verses the blight it currently clearly is?

As stated, I am undecided on this issue.


Admin Note: Removed last sentence to keep rest of post in conformance with forum guidelines.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 06:53:06 AM by VernonsOwn »
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BigAl

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2012, 10:03:56 PM »

Further to the above, as I recall the bike path champion was Criag Williams and he was removed by our former mayor. While I agree there is a deafening silence on completing the bike trails, I also wonder if that is because of the costs to complete and what has gone before. I seem to recall our former Mayor saying there was a problem with the ROW over Masker Marsh for example. That land is still for sale so a key piece of any bike trial is clearly in doubt at least if our previous Mayor is to be believed. Frankly it would surprise me if this issue was an isolated example.   
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Sally Rinker

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2012, 12:32:11 PM »

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Boards/Committees » Economic Development Advisory Committee » Minutes: August 1, 2011

All meeting minutes posted on the township website are unofficial minutes. Official copies of minutes may be obtained from the township clerk.

Minutes: August 1, 2011
 
Meeting began at 7:00 p.m.

Present

Elmer Platz
 Teresa Vihti
 Eddie Dunn
 Melissa Wiedbrauk
 Art Alviene
 Natalie Buccieri
 Mayor Vic Marotta

Mayor’s Comments

Meeting was called to order and Mayor Marotta sworn in new members. Eddie Dunn is the mayor’s designee and temporary chairman of the committee. Natalie Buccieri is the secretary.

Chairman’s Report

Introductions of members, discussion of top goals for committee. Top three are to grow tax revenues, complete town center and sewers. Two grand openings are scheduled for August, Believer’s Day Care on August 13, 2011 and Dragonflies Salon on August 27, 2011. Review grand opening checklist for business owners. Eddie to meet with Ron Mueller, past chamber of commerce president. Eddie has also been in contact with Tammy Horsfield of the Sussex County Chamber of Commerce office. Camp Sussex is for sale. Eddie to meet with broker and tour the site.

General Discussion

Possible Subcommittee

Ordinance Task Force to see if our ordinances and fees are on target and if we help or hinder business.

Committee Chairman

None selected yet—issue tabled. Eddie will serve as temporary chairman.

Four more members are needed, we are actively recruiting. Meeting dates will be 1st and 3rd Mondays of the month at 7:00 p.m. Discussed roles and responsibilities of members. Discussed main goal, members agreed completion of town center is a priority. Several questions need to be answered regarding town center—do we have funds needed? What can we focus on between now and the end of 2011? What is our first step in achieving this goal?

Meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m. Motion by Natalie Buccieri, second by Teresa Vihti.

Next Meeting: August 15, 2011

Natalie Buccieri, Secretary

 
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 Perhaps the poster who went to ask questions about Camp Sussex and was told the idea was just introduced might be concerned about getting truthful information when they read the minutes for the Economic Development Committee dated August 1, 2011 whereby the mayor was present and Councilman Dunn was off and running to persue information about Camp Sussex- almost a year ago.
Many other statements made by this poster are also way off base and full of erroneous comments.


Admin Note: Removed all the extra blank lines from post.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 01:47:28 PM by VernonsOwn »
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Phil Shiftly

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2012, 12:44:35 PM »

In my opinion, whatever the previous mayor may or may not have done they are the PREVIOUS mayor.  What is at issue now is what the CURRENT mayor may or may not do and that is all.
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BigAl

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 01:11:13 PM »

So did Eddie Dunn report on his finding and suggest the Town buy it? If not then what is relevant is what our current Mayor brought forward which in turn clearly has not been discussed but rather was recently introduced. I wonder also who owned the tax liens, assuming there were any, but rather just outstanding taxes given the way things were left to drift under the previous administrations. In consequence the real opportunity may only have arisen recently especially given the tax amounts involved have been increasing and the attempts to find any other buyer have over a longer period of time failed. As to the general statement about erroneous comments, that is a throwback as well but why bother, that administration and its figurehead will already be remembered by me at least and I suspect many more as one of the worst Vernon ever had.
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Phil Shiftly

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 03:39:55 PM »

Again, I do not see anything positive coming out of a prior administration, any prior administration bashing.

The subject is simply this:  should Vernon Township acquire Camp Sussex now or in the near future as has been suggested by the [b]CURRENT[/b] administration?

If you can’t stay on this topic perhaps you should start a new one.
My apologies to the forum if I have overstepped my bounds by making that statement. 
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VernonsOwn

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Re: Town to Buy Camp Sussex?
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 10:16:58 PM »

As had been, stated by another, the topic of discussion is to be the topic of discussion. Posting hypotheticals of why another is posting is not discussing the topic. Attacks on others via innuendo is not. Open questions are OK but directing questions specifically are not. Hijacking of threads will cause the thread to be split into a new topic and/or if that can not be done simply, they will be either deleted in part or in whole. All have been warned. If you want to stay please follow our guidelies of play. Healthy discussions are welcome when they are that and on track.

As to the heads up on "staying on topic" no worries this time, we would have said that, and this sooner, but our staffing doesn't allow 24x7 monitoring. That in part is why our guidelines and policies are as written/executed.
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